Brake Woes
Ped
gpz1100abs at gmail.com
Mon Jul 1 14:09:29 PDT 2019
The front brake is very tolerant and can take A LOT of abuse before
heating up to the extent that the brake fluid starts boiling. My guess
is that one or both pistons in one of the calipers was hanging a little
bit so that is was already very hot when you reached the top and got
completely stuck when you braked harder. It sounds like your calipers
need a major overhaul with new O-ring seals and probably also new
pistons. If you want to have the brake lines replaced at the same time,
having the dealer do it is probably a good ides. A caliper overhaul
alone is no big deal and a complete set of spareparts would only cost
you around 60 Euros. I don't think the master cylinder is to blame.
A few years ago I decided to have the brake lines on mine replaced with
steel braded lines and I asked the local dealer to do the job. I was
very disappointed though because the brake lever was at least as spongy
as before, and I pointed this out to the mechanic; he said that they had
flushed the system several times in order to get it harder and was
convinced that there were no air bubbles in the system. He thought the
calipers were to blame and recommended they be replaced. I could not
find anything wrong with the calipers, however and tried myself to flush
the system several times - to no avail. I rode that season with a spongy
brake that I was not too happy with. During winter maintenance I decided
to try and flush the system again, this time in accordance with a
procedure recommended by someone in a Danish forum. I unmounted both
calipers and hung them up in a piece of string from the ceiling so that
the calipers were just below the master cylinder. While the wife was
pouring fresh brake fluid in the master cylinder I used a vacuum pump to
suck fluid first from one caliper, then the other while at the same time
tapping lightly on the brake lines with a screwdriver. And bingo! After
having put everything back together the brake lever was as hard as ever.
So even mechanics can have a hard time getting all the air out of the
GPZ's brake system. If the brake lever is anything other than rock hard
when you get it back, the before mentioned procedure works :)
Ped
'96 "Black Stealth" GPZ
Denmark
------ Original Meddelelse ------
Fra: "Alexander Finger" <af at genevainformation.ch>
Til: "ped" <gpz1100abs at gmail.com>
Sendt: 01-07-2019 18:13:10
Emne: Re: Brake Woes
>Thanks, I'll have them change the lines..
>rgds
>Alex
>
>Jeff Walker <walkerjl at charter.net> schrieb am Mo., 1. Juli 2019, 16:33:
>
>> Sounds like you need to look at your brakes master cylinder and flush
>> the lines very, very well. If it were me I would rebuild the master
>> cylinder, then probably carefully disassemble the front calipers to
>> clean them remorselessly, spotlessly well. If the seals show no obvious
>> wear and are still pliable then I would try to reuse them.
>> The issue is that brake fluid is hydrophilic and will suck humidity
>> right out of the air. Those water vapor molecules accumulate to the
>> point of condensing into liquid water, which then causes corrosion and
>> can also boil again as it accumulates at the lowest point in the
>> system, in the calipers. You will find a bunch of dark grey "fluff" in
>> the fluid that is actually corrosion products. That is what needs to be
>> cleaned out before it damages the seals. If you have no leakage, then
>> the caliper seals aren't leaking. However the master cylinder seals can
>> leak by without any visible leakage out. The master cylinder always
>> wears out first because it has the largest amount of travel when
>> activated.
>> One last thing: what condition are the brake lines in? If they are the
>> original OEM rubber ones, you need to ditch them immediately and get
>> some metal braided lines. The rubber lines stretch.
>> Jeff in Washington
>> '96 Black with over 130K miles and still running strong.
>> On Jun 30, 2019 12:00 PM, gpzlist-request at lists.micapeak.com wrote:
>>
>> Hello my friends,
>> I did not want to let the warmth go without taking the GPZ out for
>> an
>> hour..so I went up the Salève. On top of the Hill the front brake
>> did not
>> free up after breaking; it staid in a blocking position for some
>> time; I
>> pulled the lever a couple of times and with some mechanical noise
>> the brake
>> loosened. And did not work anymore (I could pull the lever, no
>> resistance).
>> I saw smoke around the brake but could not make out any damage (I
>> could
>> only get off the bike later..).
>> I descended slowly and the brake gained "power" again; once on a
>> level
>> ground I stopped the bike to inspect the damage. The only thing I
>> could see
>> was that the area where the brake line connects to the brake,
>> everything
>> was squeaky clean (on the right side, the left side was in proper
>> dirty
>> condition).
>> - It was very warm for our region
>> - I did not abuse the brake
>> - I had some altitude (3000ft)
>> Could it be that the brake fluid got "too hot" and finally the joint
>> let go?
>> What's your thoughts?
>> Thanks
>> Alex
>>
>> --
>> --
>> http://alexfinger.ch for pgp key etc
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 10:44:27 -0600
>> From: Art Johnson <arthjohnson270 at gmail.com>
>> To: GPZ List <gpzlist at lists.micapeak.com>
>> Subject: Re: Brake woes
>> Message-ID: <39B2BFE5-3479-477C-B983-A951413F2360 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Good that you got away without accident.
>> Any leakage or hose failure would disable the brakes. Fluid boil
>> might have caused lockup, cooldown release.
>> Time for brake maintenance, caliper clean, pad inspection, fluid
>> change, replace banjo bolt washers, any defective items, operation
>> check.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Jun 30, 2019, at 9:58 AM, Alexander Finger
>> <af at genevainformation.ch> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello my friends,
>> > I did not want to let the warmth go without taking the GPZ out for
>> an
>> > hour..so I went up the Salève. On top of the Hill the front brake
>> did not
>> > free up after breaking; it staid in a blocking position for some
>> time; I
>> > pulled the lever a couple of times and with some mechanical noise
>> the brake
>> > loosened. And did not work anymore (I could pull the lever, no
>> resistance).
>> > I saw smoke around the brake but could not make out any damage (I
>> could
>> > only get off the bike later..).
>> > I descended slowly and the brake gained "power" again; once on a
>> level
>> > ground I stopped the bike to inspect the damage. The only thing I
>> could see
>> > was that the area where the brake line connects to the brake,
>> everything
>> > was squeaky clean (on the right side, the left side was in proper
>> dirty
>> > condition).
>> > - It was very warm for our region
>> > - I did not abuse the brake
>> > - I had some altitude (3000ft)
>> > Could it be that the brake fluid got "too hot" and finally the
>> joint let go?
>> > What's your thoughts?
>> > Thanks
>> > Alex
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
>> > http://alexfinger.ch for pgp key etc
>> >
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> __
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 19:49:16 +0200
>> From: Alexander Finger <af at genevainformation.ch>
>> To: GPZ List <gpzlist at lists.micapeak.com>
>> Subject: Re: Brake woes
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAKO=xBsVjFM_DPMQxCXqO2i0JqmLdKkqae37=gsqGrU_tskwjA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> I was slow when they blocked. So it's off to the dealer for a brake
>> job
>> then..I hope it'll not cost more than the downpayment for a new zzr.
>>
>> Art Johnson <arthjohnson270 at gmail.com> schrieb am So., 30. Juni
>> 2019, 18:44:
>>
>> > Good that you got away without accident.
>> > Any leakage or hose failure would disable the brakes. Fluid boil
>> might
>> > have caused lockup, cooldown release.
>> > Time for brake maintenance, caliper clean, pad inspection, fluid
>> change,
>> > replace banjo bolt washers, any defective items, operation check.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > > On Jun 30, 2019, at 9:58 AM, Alexander Finger
>> <af at genevainformation.ch>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hello my friends,
>> > > I did not want to let the warmth go without taking the GPZ out
>> for an
>> > > hour..so I went up the Salève. On top of the Hill the front
>> brake did not
>> > > free up after breaking; it staid in a blocking position for some
>> time; I
>> > > pulled the lever a couple of times and with some mechanical
>> noise the
>> > brake
>> > > loosened. And did not work anymore (I could pull the lever, no
>> > resistance).
>> > > I saw smoke around the brake but could not make out any damage
>> (I could
>> > > only get off the bike later..).
>> > > I descended slowly and the brake gained "power" again; once on
>> a level
>> > > ground I stopped the bike to inspect the damage. The only thing
>> I could
>> > see
>> > > was that the area where the brake line connects to the brake,
>> everything
>> > > was squeaky clean (on the right side, the left side was in
>> proper dirty
>> > > condition).
>> > > - It was very warm for our region
>> > > - I did not abuse the brake
>> > > - I had some altitude (3000ft)
>> > > Could it be that the brake fluid got "too hot" and finally the
>> joint let
>> > go?
>> > > What's your thoughts?
>> > > Thanks
>> > > Alex
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > --
>> > > http://alexfinger.ch for pgp key etc
>> > >
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> __
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 12:30:53 -0600
>> From: Art Johnson <arthjohnson270 at gmail.com>
>> To: GPZ List <gpzlist at lists.micapeak.com>
>> Subject: Re: Brake woes
>> Message-ID: <D9B3F515-0AA7-4603-867C-A3F9C54ED4D1 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Hope it works out for you Alex. Fun fast rides for cheap thrills.
>> I left my Gpz in Venezia....
>>
>> The GPz is reliable. Hope to do more Euro adventures over the next 5
>> yrs. Croatia and Rome this Fall. Then Spain, Portugal and S. France,
>> next. Work north to Sweden, Norway, UK and Ireland.
>>
>> Bought a 2007 Zx14 (ZZR) for home. The front brakes are so much
>> better.
>> Going thru the maintenance routine, coolant, brake fluid change,
>> sparkplugs, valve shims, air filter. Tires and chain good. Tsukigi
>> 4-1 pipe and ECU reprogram next.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Jun 30, 2019, at 11:49 AM, Alexander Finger
>> <af at genevainformation.ch> wrote:
>> >
>> > I was slow when they blocked. So it's off to the dealer for a
>> brake job
>> > then..I hope it'll not cost more than the downpayment for a new
>> zzr.
>> >
>> > Art Johnson <arthjohnson270 at gmail.com> schrieb am So., 30. Juni
>> 2019, 18:44:
>> >
>> >> Good that you got away without accident.
>> >> Any leakage or hose failure would disable the brakes. Fluid boil
>> might
>> >> have caused lockup, cooldown release.
>> >> Time for brake maintenance, caliper clean, pad inspection, fluid
>> change,
>> >> replace banjo bolt washers, any defective items, operation check.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>> On Jun 30, 2019, at 9:58 AM, Alexander Finger
>> <af at genevainformation.ch>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hello my friends,
>> >>> I did not want to let the warmth go without taking the GPZ out
>> for an
>> >>> hour..so I went up the Salève. On top of the Hill the front
>> brake did not
>> >>> free up after breaking; it staid in a blocking position for some
>> time; I
>> >>> pulled the lever a couple of times and with some mechanical
>> noise the
>> >> brake
>> >>> loosened. And did not work anymore (I could pull the lever, no
>> >> resistance).
>> >>> I saw smoke around the brake but could not make out any damage
>> (I could
>> >>> only get off the bike later..).
>> >>> I descended slowly and the brake gained "power" again; once on
>> a level
>> >>> ground I stopped the bike to inspect the damage. The only thing
>> I could
>> >> see
>> >>> was that the area where the brake line connects to the brake,
>> everything
>> >>> was squeaky clean (on the right side, the left side was in
>> proper dirty
>> >>> condition).
>> >>> - It was very warm for our region
>> >>> - I did not abuse the brake
>> >>> - I had some altitude (3000ft)
>> >>> Could it be that the brake fluid got "too hot" and finally the
>> joint let
>> >> go?
>> >>> What's your thoughts?
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>> Alex
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> --
>> >>> http://alexfinger.ch for pgp key etc
>> >>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> __
>> >>> GENERAL GPZList MAILING LIST INFORMATION:
>> >>> This is from the GPZList mailing list.
>> GPZList at lists.micapeak.com
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