Premature clutch wear. 1st vs. 2nd gen?

Aaron Turner synfinatic at gmail.com
Tue Aug 13 17:04:50 PDT 2013


Yep, 1st gen basket and the 2 "stock" springs are the shorter 2nd gen! :-/

Well at least I now know what parts I need to order!  Thanks everyone for
all the info and advice!

Aaron Turner
http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and replay tools for
Unix & Windows
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    -- Benjamin Franklin



On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic at gmail.com> wrote:

> Doh!  Thanks Chris, you're absolutely right.  The tab service limit is
> 12.9 vs 15.1mm and the baskets are different part numbers.  I know what I'm
> measuring when I get home now. :)
>
> Jo- you're right too.  The springs have different part numbers and service
> limits.  The 1st gen are slightly longer.
>
> Aaron Turner
> http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
> https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and replay tools
> for Unix & Windows
> Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
> Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>     -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Burgess <chris at chrisburgess.com>wrote:
>
>> The clutch basket and friction plates are different between the 1st gen
>> and 2nd gen.  The 2nd gens tabs are shorter and the clutch basket notches
>> are smaller to accept that.  Also the 2nd gen clutch basket has a
>> re-enforcing band around the notch area to strength it.
>>
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> > From: synfinatic at gmail.com
>> > Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:11:11 -0700
>> > Subject: Re: Premature clutch wear. 1st vs. 2nd gen?
>> > To: sv650 at micapeak.com
>> >
>> > Thanks Randy- I didn't even think about checking the actuator arm angle!
>> >
>> > I just checked the parts fiche for the 1st & 2nd gen bikes and the
>> clutch
>> > basket and pressure plate are the same part numbers for the two bikes.
>> >  Looks like really the only difference is that the 2nd gen uses a
>> slightly
>> > shorter clutch pack along with the washer/spring washer setup and so the
>> > two should be interchangeable as a full set.
>> >
>> > So it looks like the clutch just wasn't adjusted correctly, not that I
>> had
>> > the wrong parts.
>> >
>> > Aaron Turner
>> > http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
>> > https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and replay
>> tools for
>> > Unix & Windows
>> > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
>> temporary
>> > Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>> >     -- Benjamin Franklin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:42 PM, Randy Grein <rgrein at q.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I have been caught with this a time or two - last time there was TOO
>> much
>> > > free play in the cable and turning the bars caused it to jump up from
>> the
>> > > adjuster hole to the edge and you guessed it - free spinning clutch.
>> On
>> > > advice from Zlocks I let it cool, put it back together, got the free
>> play
>> > > right (that included a minor cable reroute) and it was fine - on a 90
>> hp
>> > > super bike. The other times I've had this I didn't have the actuator
>> arm
>> > > set right, so check that end as well.
>> > >
>> > > Randy Grein
>> > > rgrein at q.com
>> > >
>> > > ''Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war.''
>> > >
>> > > —former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 2003
>> > >
>> > > On Aug 12, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > How?  It's a painful long story.  Honestly, I don't know if the
>> basket or
>> > > > pressure plate were swapped since I didn't do the work.  If I had to
>> > > guess,
>> > > > I'd say they're off the 2nd gen but that's something I'll have to
>> ask the
>> > > > shop.
>> > > >
>> > > > Last oil change (right before the last 2 track days & race weekend)
>> is
>> > > > Castrol 4T full-syn motorcycle racing oil 10W-40.  Oil level has
>> always
>> > > > been visible in the sight glass.  Before that, I don't know other
>> then
>> > > oil
>> > > > levels were fine.  That was only the second time it's been filled
>> with
>> > > oil
>> > > > since it's been in my bike.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Aaron Turner
>> > > > http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
>> > > > https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and replay
>> tools
>> > > for
>> > > > Unix & Windows
>> > > > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
>> temporary
>> > > > Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>> > > >    -- Benjamin Franklin
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chris Burgess <
>> chris at chrisburgess.com
>> > > >wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Why would Z say that?  I've used the Barnett clutch pack including
>> > > springs
>> > > >> in my 90hp 2nd gen for some time.  I loved the stiffer spring at
>> the
>> > > clutch
>> > > >> lever.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I just completely rebuilt the motor (cases and all) and put in
>> another
>> > > >> Barnett clutch with springs. Just got it fired so no time on it.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> My question is how did you get the 1st gen clutch into a 2nd gen
>> bike?
>> > > >> Are you using the 1st gen clutch basket? If so, why?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> And what I would look at is oil.  What oil are you using and is the
>> > > clutch
>> > > >> getting enough.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> -Chris
>> > > >>
>> > > >>> Subject: Re: Premature clutch wear. 1st vs. 2nd gen?
>> > > >>> From: jorhett at fastlizardracing.com
>> > > >>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:18:30 -0700
>> > > >>> To: sv650 at micapeak.com
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Zoran told me not to use the Barnett springs in the 2nd gen clutch
>> > > >> unmodified. I can't remember what else he said, but I'd check with
>> him
>> > > >> directly if he doesn't speak up here. Sounds like they are
>> > > >> not-quite-the-same.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:15 AM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic at gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >>>> So I've been trying to diagnose why my clutch slips under hard
>> > > >>>> acceleration.  It doesn't slip a lot, just what feels like one
>> > > >> revolution
>> > > >>>> or so. Happens probably 2-4 times a lap at THill depending on
>> how hard
>> > > >> I'm
>> > > >>>> on it.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> So long story short, I have a nearly brand new (2 race weekends
>> and
>> > > >> about 5
>> > > >>>> track days) 1st gen Barnett clutch pack installed in a 2nd gen
>> motor.
>> > > >>>> (long story)   Although to be honest, the clutch has been
>> slipping for
>> > > >> at
>> > > >>>> least half that time (I've had bigger problems to worry about).
>>  I
>> > > >> tried
>> > > >>>> adding more play in the clutch cable last race round, but that
>> didn't
>> > > >> help.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> The clutch seat & seat spring washers from the 2nd gen clutch
>> are NOT
>> > > >>>> installed.  4 of the 6 clutch springs were Barnett, the other 2
>> stock.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> I measured the plates.  The thicker #2 friction plate is on the
>> high
>> > > >> side
>> > > >>>> of being within spec.  Of the remaining 6 frictions, 4 are in
>> spec
>> > > >> (barely)
>> > > >>>> and 2 are just out of spec.  All +/- .02mm of spec.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Steels look good, no bluing/etc.  Pack was installed correctly
>> per 1st
>> > > >> gen
>> > > >>>> specs.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> So, seems like I probably need a new set of frictions (I
>> couldn't find
>> > > >> any
>> > > >>>> spec for total clutch pack height, does anyone have any
>> numbers?).
>> > > >> What I
>> > > >>>> don't understand is why the clutch wear was so aggressive.  The
>> motor
>> > > >> isn't
>> > > >>>> making crazy horsepower (less then 80HP) and historically my
>> clutches
>> > > >> have
>> > > >>>> no problem lasting more then a full race season.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> I know the 1st & 2nd gen SV are *almost* the same... stator, gear
>> > > >> position
>> > > >>>> sensor and oil cooler being the obvious differences on the
>> bottom end,
>> > > >> but
>> > > >>>> maybe there is something different with the clutch basket/etc
>> that
>> > > >> would
>> > > >>>> cause this premature wear?
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Right now, the only idea I have is that the clutch cable was too
>> tight
>> > > >> and
>> > > >>>> that caused the premature wear.  And by the time I loosened it
>> up it
>> > > >> was
>> > > >>>> too late.  But honestly, I never felt any difference after
>> adjusting
>> > > >> the
>> > > >>>> clutch cable.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Suggestions or ideas?
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Thanks!
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Aaron Turner
>> > > >>>> http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
>> > > >>>> https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and
>> replay
>> > > >> tools for
>> > > >>>> Unix & Windows
>> > > >>>> Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
>> > > >> temporary
>> > > >>>> Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>> > > >>>>   -- Benjamin Franklin
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>>
>
>


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