Premature clutch wear. 1st vs. 2nd gen?

Chris Burgess chris at chrisburgess.com
Tue Aug 13 18:07:55 PDT 2013


Nice!  Always feels good to find the cause of a problem you are having.

> From: synfinatic at gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 17:04:50 -0700
> Subject: Re: Premature clutch wear. 1st vs. 2nd gen?
> To: sv650 at micapeak.com
> 
> Yep, 1st gen basket and the 2 "stock" springs are the shorter 2nd gen! :-/
> 
> Well at least I now know what parts I need to order!  Thanks everyone for
> all the info and advice!
> 
> Aaron Turner
> http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
> https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and replay tools for
> Unix & Windows
> Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
> Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>     -- Benjamin Franklin
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Doh!  Thanks Chris, you're absolutely right.  The tab service limit is
> > 12.9 vs 15.1mm and the baskets are different part numbers.  I know what I'm
> > measuring when I get home now. :)
> >
> > Jo- you're right too.  The springs have different part numbers and service
> > limits.  The 1st gen are slightly longer.
> >
> > Aaron Turner
> > http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
> > https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and replay tools
> > for Unix & Windows
> > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
> > Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
> >     -- Benjamin Franklin
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Chris Burgess <chris at chrisburgess.com>wrote:
> >
> >> The clutch basket and friction plates are different between the 1st gen
> >> and 2nd gen.  The 2nd gens tabs are shorter and the clutch basket notches
> >> are smaller to accept that.  Also the 2nd gen clutch basket has a
> >> re-enforcing band around the notch area to strength it.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Chris
> >>
> >> > From: synfinatic at gmail.com
> >> > Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:11:11 -0700
> >> > Subject: Re: Premature clutch wear. 1st vs. 2nd gen?
> >> > To: sv650 at micapeak.com
> >> >
> >> > Thanks Randy- I didn't even think about checking the actuator arm angle!
> >> >
> >> > I just checked the parts fiche for the 1st & 2nd gen bikes and the
> >> clutch
> >> > basket and pressure plate are the same part numbers for the two bikes.
> >> >  Looks like really the only difference is that the 2nd gen uses a
> >> slightly
> >> > shorter clutch pack along with the washer/spring washer setup and so the
> >> > two should be interchangeable as a full set.
> >> >
> >> > So it looks like the clutch just wasn't adjusted correctly, not that I
> >> had
> >> > the wrong parts.
> >> >
> >> > Aaron Turner
> >> > http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
> >> > https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and replay
> >> tools for
> >> > Unix & Windows
> >> > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> >> temporary
> >> > Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
> >> >     -- Benjamin Franklin
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:42 PM, Randy Grein <rgrein at q.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I have been caught with this a time or two - last time there was TOO
> >> much
> >> > > free play in the cable and turning the bars caused it to jump up from
> >> the
> >> > > adjuster hole to the edge and you guessed it - free spinning clutch.
> >> On
> >> > > advice from Zlocks I let it cool, put it back together, got the free
> >> play
> >> > > right (that included a minor cable reroute) and it was fine - on a 90
> >> hp
> >> > > super bike. The other times I've had this I didn't have the actuator
> >> arm
> >> > > set right, so check that end as well.
> >> > >
> >> > > Randy Grein
> >> > > rgrein at q.com
> >> > >
> >> > > ''Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war.''
> >> > >
> >> > > —former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 2003
> >> > >
> >> > > On Aug 12, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > How?  It's a painful long story.  Honestly, I don't know if the
> >> basket or
> >> > > > pressure plate were swapped since I didn't do the work.  If I had to
> >> > > guess,
> >> > > > I'd say they're off the 2nd gen but that's something I'll have to
> >> ask the
> >> > > > shop.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Last oil change (right before the last 2 track days & race weekend)
> >> is
> >> > > > Castrol 4T full-syn motorcycle racing oil 10W-40.  Oil level has
> >> always
> >> > > > been visible in the sight glass.  Before that, I don't know other
> >> then
> >> > > oil
> >> > > > levels were fine.  That was only the second time it's been filled
> >> with
> >> > > oil
> >> > > > since it's been in my bike.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Aaron Turner
> >> > > > http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
> >> > > > https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and replay
> >> tools
> >> > > for
> >> > > > Unix & Windows
> >> > > > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> >> temporary
> >> > > > Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
> >> > > >    -- Benjamin Franklin
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chris Burgess <
> >> chris at chrisburgess.com
> >> > > >wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> Why would Z say that?  I've used the Barnett clutch pack including
> >> > > springs
> >> > > >> in my 90hp 2nd gen for some time.  I loved the stiffer spring at
> >> the
> >> > > clutch
> >> > > >> lever.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> I just completely rebuilt the motor (cases and all) and put in
> >> another
> >> > > >> Barnett clutch with springs. Just got it fired so no time on it.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> My question is how did you get the 1st gen clutch into a 2nd gen
> >> bike?
> >> > > >> Are you using the 1st gen clutch basket? If so, why?
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> And what I would look at is oil.  What oil are you using and is the
> >> > > clutch
> >> > > >> getting enough.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> -Chris
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>> Subject: Re: Premature clutch wear. 1st vs. 2nd gen?
> >> > > >>> From: jorhett at fastlizardracing.com
> >> > > >>> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:18:30 -0700
> >> > > >>> To: sv650 at micapeak.com
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> Zoran told me not to use the Barnett springs in the 2nd gen clutch
> >> > > >> unmodified. I can't remember what else he said, but I'd check with
> >> him
> >> > > >> directly if he doesn't speak up here. Sounds like they are
> >> > > >> not-quite-the-same.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:15 AM, Aaron Turner <synfinatic at gmail.com>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >>>> So I've been trying to diagnose why my clutch slips under hard
> >> > > >>>> acceleration.  It doesn't slip a lot, just what feels like one
> >> > > >> revolution
> >> > > >>>> or so. Happens probably 2-4 times a lap at THill depending on
> >> how hard
> >> > > >> I'm
> >> > > >>>> on it.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> So long story short, I have a nearly brand new (2 race weekends
> >> and
> >> > > >> about 5
> >> > > >>>> track days) 1st gen Barnett clutch pack installed in a 2nd gen
> >> motor.
> >> > > >>>> (long story)   Although to be honest, the clutch has been
> >> slipping for
> >> > > >> at
> >> > > >>>> least half that time (I've had bigger problems to worry about).
> >>  I
> >> > > >> tried
> >> > > >>>> adding more play in the clutch cable last race round, but that
> >> didn't
> >> > > >> help.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> The clutch seat & seat spring washers from the 2nd gen clutch
> >> are NOT
> >> > > >>>> installed.  4 of the 6 clutch springs were Barnett, the other 2
> >> stock.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> I measured the plates.  The thicker #2 friction plate is on the
> >> high
> >> > > >> side
> >> > > >>>> of being within spec.  Of the remaining 6 frictions, 4 are in
> >> spec
> >> > > >> (barely)
> >> > > >>>> and 2 are just out of spec.  All +/- .02mm of spec.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Steels look good, no bluing/etc.  Pack was installed correctly
> >> per 1st
> >> > > >> gen
> >> > > >>>> specs.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> So, seems like I probably need a new set of frictions (I
> >> couldn't find
> >> > > >> any
> >> > > >>>> spec for total clutch pack height, does anyone have any
> >> numbers?).
> >> > > >> What I
> >> > > >>>> don't understand is why the clutch wear was so aggressive.  The
> >> motor
> >> > > >> isn't
> >> > > >>>> making crazy horsepower (less then 80HP) and historically my
> >> clutches
> >> > > >> have
> >> > > >>>> no problem lasting more then a full race season.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> I know the 1st & 2nd gen SV are *almost* the same... stator, gear
> >> > > >> position
> >> > > >>>> sensor and oil cooler being the obvious differences on the
> >> bottom end,
> >> > > >> but
> >> > > >>>> maybe there is something different with the clutch basket/etc
> >> that
> >> > > >> would
> >> > > >>>> cause this premature wear?
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Right now, the only idea I have is that the clutch cable was too
> >> tight
> >> > > >> and
> >> > > >>>> that caused the premature wear.  And by the time I loosened it
> >> up it
> >> > > >> was
> >> > > >>>> too late.  But honestly, I never felt any difference after
> >> adjusting
> >> > > >> the
> >> > > >>>> clutch cable.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Suggestions or ideas?
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Thanks!
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Aaron Turner
> >> > > >>>> http://synfin.net/         Twitter: @synfinatic
> >> > > >>>> https://github.com/synfinatic/tcpreplay - Pcap editing and
> >> replay
> >> > > >> tools for
> >> > > >>>> Unix & Windows
> >> > > >>>> Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> >> > > >> temporary
> >> > > >>>> Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
> >> > > >>>>   -- Benjamin Franklin
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
 		 	   		  


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