carb problem?
Steve Northrop
blackgpz at rochester.rr.com
Wed Aug 1 15:57:53 PDT 2007
Which bike has the problem Jerry? Is it the new bike or the old bike? You
know your old bike is mechanically sound so if you put the carbs on and it
doesn't run, you know it's the carbs. If it's the new bike, you really don't
have any idea what shape the engine is in mechanically. Jet/needle and pilot
wise, the carbs can be off quite a ways and the engine will run better than
you describe. I would suggest an inspection of the valve train including a
valve adjustment, checking cam chain tension and cam timing followed by a
compression check before chasing the carbs around anymore. As for the
missing and backfire, my experience with this bike is that once you foul a
plug, it's done. You can't clean it, you must replace it.
Steve in Western NY
'96 GPZ1100
'02 Daytona 955i
"You Can't Fix Stupid", Ron White
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Clair" <darkclarity2k at yahoo.com>
To: "Kawasaki GPZ1100 discussion" <gpzlist at micapeak.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: carb problem?
> missing and back fire. sticking float?
>
> Steve Northrop <blackgpz at rochester.rr.com> wrote: That's correct.
> Several of us are running the FP Stage 3 kit with pods and performance
> exhaust with good results.
>
> Steve in Western NY
> '96 GPZ1100
> '02 Daytona 955i
> "You Can't Fix Stupid", Ron White
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Beard
> To: Jerry Clair
> Cc: Steve Northrop
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 4:36 PM
> Subject: Re: carb problem?
>
>
> Jerry - Yep, but remember that this Stage 1 jet kit will do you no good
> if you are putting on Pod filters.
>
> Steve - Jerry has pod filters on order (should show up any day) so I
> recommended he order the Factory Pro Stage 3. That's what you are
> running, right?
>
> Dave B
>
> Jerry Clair wrote: look what I found. (It's a stage 1)
>
> http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/2157.pdf
>
> Steve Northrop <blackgpz at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> No, the slide moves up and down with engine load. the needle is
> attached to the slide. When the slide moves up a narrower part of the
> needle tip is in the fixed orifice, allowing more fuel. When the slide
> moves down, a fatter part of the needle tip goes into the orifice,
> lessening fuel flow. Changing the position of the clip in the needle
> changes the relative position of the needle tip in the fixed orifice. E.g.
> if you put the clip in the lowest (#5) groove, the needle would be higher
> in the fixed orifice at the same slide height. This would give you a
> richer mid-range. The reason for the clip/washer thickness to duplicate
> the "nailhead" of the stock needle is to prevent vertical movement of the
> needle after installation in the slide. Try putting the Dynojet needle in
> the slide with just a clip on it, put the
> white plastic retainer on top of it and hold the retainer down with
> your finger. Now grab the needle below and try and move it up and
> down. It will move quite a bit. The extra clip/washers act as
> spacers to prevent this. If the needle is free to move up and down
> in the slide like this, it kind of negates the precise placement of
> the clip in a groove because it's able to jump around all over the
> place.
>
> Steve in Western NY
> '96 GPZ1100
> '02 Daytona 955i
> "You Can't Fix Stupid", Ron White
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerry Clair
> To: Steve Northrop
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 10:44 AM
> Subject: Re: carb problem?
>
>
> Boy am I learning alot!
> the nail head is what sets up the range of travel of the needle?
>
> Steve Northrop <blackgpz at rochester.rr.com> wrote: A
> washer and another clip, three washers, whatever. You must duplicate
> the
> thickness of the nailhead on the stock needle or it will rattle
> up and down
> in the slide. Dynojet jet numbers are stamped on the top of the
> jet, Keihin
> jet numbers are stamped on the side. Dynojet says to use their
> #104 main
> jets for a stock exhaust, the #108's for an aftermarket
> exhaust.
>
> Steve in Western NY
> '96 GPZ1100
> '02 Daytona 955i
> "You Can't Fix Stupid", Ron White
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jameson, George E."
> To: "Jerry Clair" ; "Kawasaki GPZ1100 discussion"
>
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:13 AM
> Subject: RE: carb problem?
>
>
>> Try looking at this, these are the same carbs you have. Some
>> of the
>> pictures are missing and the airbox instructions pertain to
>> this bike .
>> But they are Keihin 36's. This kit manufacturer uses a total
>> of three
>> washers and 'e' clip position to position needles vertically.
>> I don't
>> know about 2 clips either. Break out your reading glasses
>> keihin jet
>> sizes are stamped on the jet.
>> http://www.zrxoa.org/webpages/techinfo/carb/ivan/ivansinstallation.html
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jerry Clair [mailto:darkclarity2k at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 11:22 PM
>> To: Kawasaki GPZ1100 discussion
>> Subject: Re: carb problem?
>>
>> 2 clips? WTF. How do I know if I have a 108?
>> Pilots are at 2 1/2
>>
>> Steve Northrop wrote: The baseline
>> installation is the clip in the second groove from the top.
>> There needs
>> to be a washer above the clip and another clip in the first
>> groove,
>> otherwise the white plastic retainer won't hold the needle
>> down tightly.
>> When replacing the white plastic retainer, make sure the feet
>> don't
>> cover the slide lift hole in the bottom of the slide. The main
>> jet
>> should be a 108 and the pilot screws 2 1/2 turns out. Again,
>> these are
>> the baseline Dynojet installation instructions.
>>
>> Steve in Western NY
>> '96 GPZ1100
>> '02 Daytona 955i
>> "You Can't Fix Stupid", Ron White
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jerry Clair
>> To: Steve Northrop
>> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 4:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: carb problem?
>>
>>
>> The clip is on the 3rd from the top. hmm, is that right?
>>
>> Steve Northrop wrote:
>> That's the needle that dangles from the slide. You can see
>> it's tapered
>> at the end. The slide raises and lowers the needle relative to
>> a fixed
>> orifice depending on engine load. The main jet is below the
>> needle and
>> provides the fuel that is below the fixed orifice. Whenever I
>> have the
>> carbs off and the slides out, I take a little crocus cloth
>> (very,very fine sandpaper) and smooth out any rough spots,
>> especially on the "wings". Inside the slide is a white plastic
>> retainer that just lifts out, then the needle can come out. If
>> the
>> needle has 'slittle grooves at the top with an "e" clip in one
>> of
>> them, a jet kit has been installed. If the needle just has a
>> nail
>> head, it's stock.
>>
>> Steve in Western NY
>> '96 GPZ1100
>> '02 Daytona 955i
>> "You Can't Fix Stupid", Ron White
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jerry Clair
>> To: blackgpz at rochester.rr.com
>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: carb problem?
>>
>>
>> Ah! Master Steve,
>> The problem is that I don't know WTF I have. Nor do I know
>> very much of what I'm doing.
>> 1. But I sure can compare the springs from my stocker to No.2.
>> When I pull the diaphram up & out (thats the main Jet dangling
>> off the slide -right?)
>>
>> 2. Shouldn't the slides be very smooth in operation?
>>
>> 3. um, what else is down inside there?
>>
>> blackgpz at rochester.rr.com wrote: Jerry, did you say you
>> thought there was a Dynojet kit installed? If
>> so, compare the diaphragm springs to the stock ones. If
>> they're
>> shorter
>> than stock they are NFG. These kits are notorious for an
>> off-idle
>> bog
>> if you use their springs. Replacing with the stock springs
>> solves the
>> problem.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jerry Clair
>> Date: Thursday, July 19, 2007 12:46 pm
>> Subject: carb problem?
>> To: Kawasaki GPZ1100 discussion
>>
>>> OK, so I'm not the best mechanic, when it comes to carbs.
>>> Bye-bye box. wow, what a pain and poor design. and the
>>> reed valves, really are not like a PVC? I know we just
>>> talked
>>
>>> about this but whats a good wat to plug it?
>>>
>>> So, I yank the suckers off, and found the pilots at 3 turns,
>>> instead of 2 to 2.5 turn, no biggy. Idles great now. The
>> slides
>>> made different sounds from one another and could be smoother.
>>> Diaphrams intact and everything basically very clean.
>>> Still, any acceleration and she bogs to a stall.
>>>
>>> So, I'm considering taking the known good carbs off of
>>> bike 1, and test bike 2 even though, the test will not have
>>> the air box and using the muzzy as opposed to the stock
>>> one bike 1.
>>>
>>> I'm considering welding a handle to the darn tank at this
>> point!
>>> Think I should empty the tank first. J/K
>>>
>>> Jer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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